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Network (kinda)/Date Rape/Shitty Word Game

nothing funny happened in the movie forum, just on the way to the movie forum

Re: Network

by DGMacphee on Tue Apr 21, 2025 6:04 am

White Panther wrote:only good people shouldn't get raped you guys


This is an interesting comment because I have never heard anyone in the history of these forums cry foul over comedies about prison rape. Where was your moral outrage over Let's Go to Prison?

----------

Edit: To add to Justin's comments, even a fairly innocent comic like Mike Birbiglia can joke about rape. Listen to his joke at the 0:55 mark:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5839479081

Also listen around the 0:18 mark on the track "Sex, Tennis and Pandas" on his CD Two Drink Mike.
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Re: Network

by Just!n on Tue Apr 21, 2025 6:53 am

I think it's pretty clear that Ryan only has issues with depictions of rape crimes perpetrated against women by men. I don't really agree or disagree with his position because it isn't like it's not an admirable one to maintain, but I also have less stringent moral objections to what should and shouldn't be joked about or portrayed dramatically or whatever the case may be. Maybe this is due to lack of personal experience or maybe I'm just utterly broken as a human being. That's for my therapist to decide!

Also, I could list off a bunch of other rape jokes I thought were funny, but I guess the difference between them and the one in O&R is that they were framed within the context of total absurdity as opposed to quasi-realism.
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Re: Network

by Illinois Smith on Tue Apr 21, 2025 8:54 am

I think the article I agree with the most about this whole mess came from Kim Voynar, who argues for personal responsibility on both sides of the gender equation.

For me, the scene itself fell on the side of inebriated sex and not date rape, and I find the more vitriolic responses to it rather reactive and indicative of the larger issue of responsibility around sexual behavior and the urge to blame others for the negative consequences of our own choices. Further, I believe that equating this to date rape detracts from the real issue of women who actually are drugged against their will and sexually assaulted, and that there is a distinct difference between that and a woman choosing of her own free will to get herself completely inebriated and render herself incapable of making an informed decision of whether to have sex with a guy.

There's an inherent contradiction that a lot of feminists seem to prefer not to discuss at all: if we say that a woman who is inebriated by her own choice is therefore no longer responsible for the sexual choices she might make while in that state, is it fair to argue that the man she's with, if he's also inebriated, should be responsible for making that choice for her?

Would writers who argue that the sex scene in Observe and Report is date rape also be willing to argue that if a man has sex when he's "too drunk" to make a sober decision, he no longer has responsibility for the consequences of that sex, such as pregnancy or spreading a STD? How can we seriously argue that a man who gets chooses to get too drunk and has unprotected sex IS responsible for the consequence of that choice (and even demand that he pay child support for the resulting infant, should the woman choose not to abort the pregnancy -- a choice over which he has no control) on the one hand, while arguing on the other that if a woman chooses to get herself too drunk to make a sober decision, the full responsibility for that choice must also fall on the man?

Men are not the enemy, and I grow weary of the twisting of ideas of female sexuality and female empowerment into an ugly worldview where the women are always right, the men are always wrong, and women want all of the freedom they see men as having while refusing to accept the responsibility that goes along with it.

That's not the kind of female empowerment I believe in, nor is it the balanced view of power in relationships that I hope to foster in my own sons and daughters (and for those who might wonder, my oldest daughter is 23, and my four youngest -- two boys and two girls -- range in age from 12 to 5). Do I fear for my daughters, as they grow up and have to navigate sexual choices and relationships, and learn to accept adult responsibility for their actions? Yes, I do -- but I also fear for my sons, growing up into a world where some of my fellow feminists would paint them as forever in the wrong, as the bearers of all responsibility for the choices and behavior of the young women they might encounter. I aim to teach both my daughters and my sons that they are responsible for both their choices and the consequences those choices might bear, and I hope that they will all grow up not to consider excessive drug or alcohol use as an excuse for making unsafe -- or plain stupid -- choices.

There is also the bigger sociological issue of whether some women deliberately drink to excess to relieve themselves of responsibility for making choices that, while sober, they might think twice about. The idea that date rape is not a black-and-white issue, but one with many shades of gray that deserve consideration, is not a popular perspective in feminist circles. But I am a feminist who also believes very strongly in personal responsibility and accountability on both sides, not just one, for the consequences of the choices one makes. And I am a feminist who is also a mother ... a mother of both daughters and sons, all of whom will one day have to navigate increasingly murky waters of decision-making around their sexual encounters.

I saw an interesting documentary at AFI Dallas called Haze, which is mostly about the excessive alcohol consumption on college campuses in the Greek system. But there was one bit in particular that struck me in that film where a professor talks about studies on how drinking patterns, particularly among female students, have changed over the past couple decades. He says that many female students these days come to college intent on drinking as much as the boys do. They binge drink excessively -- 15-20 drinks at a sitting is no longer uncommon.

Another professor in the film states that many of the college-age, binge-drinking female students he has interviewed say they do so specifically to absolve themselves of responsibility for promiscuous sexual behavior. I'd like to read an actual study that verifies this somewhere, but the prevalence of overtly sexual behavior by college-age girls at spring break parties and exploitative series like Girls Gone Wild would seem to indicate that many 20-something young women today view their sexuality as something to flaunt and exploit, not hide under a bushel -- and they're using drugs and alcohol to relieve themselves of the inhibitions that might otherwise make them think twice about what they're doing.

Female empowerment is about the idea of women in control of their lives and their choices, not about women choosing to drink and drug themselves into a state of non-responsibility for their sexual decision-making. The depiction of Brandi in Observe and Report is clearly the latter.

Brandi is reprehensible – and offends me as a woman by the way she represents women -- and you could argue that Jody Hill's take on her and the type of woman she represents is completely misogynistic, but Hill just put the stereotype of this young, sexually active, hard-partying woman on-screen. And if you don’t believe that, just take a stroll down the main bar drag in any random college town on a Friday or Saturday night and you will encounter many, many young women like Brandi, scantily clad, tottering drunkenly on stiletto heels, drinking and drugging themselves into total oblivion and talking about the dick they're going to score. Anna Faris plays this stereotype with a brutal honesty that should be, well, sobering. The moment when she yells out "Why'd you stop, motherfucker?" asks us to question our assumptions about what we've just seen.

Responsibility for choices, and the acceptance of the consequences for the actions one makes, has to fall on both sides of the male-female sexual equation -- and that includes the responsibility not to consume alcohol or drugs to the point that you are unable to make sound decisions to begin with. Choices have consequences, and they're not always good ones. Rather than putting all this energy into debating whether a questionable scene in a film depicts date rape as "acceptable," our time would be better spent finding ways to reach out to the women of the younger generation and educate them about their own responsibility to themselves to make smart choices around alcohol and drug use, and the consequences -- alcohol poisoning, accidental overdose, questionable sexual encounters, STDs, unwanted pregnancies -- that can result from those choices.

Observe and Report is a great stepping-stone into raising alI of these issues with both women and men. But the discussion needs to start with the assumption that both men and women have a responsibility to themselves to make intelligent, sober choices and to not put themselves into precarious situations to begin with, not by assuming that the entire burden of responsibility for the decisions a woman makes can be obliterated simply by her own choice to drink too much.

http://moviecitynews.com/columnists/voy ... 90415.html

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Re: Network

by Magnus J. Perriculum on Tue Apr 21, 2025 1:39 pm

Wow. Even if you don't agree with her, that is a damn good commentary on the subject.
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Re: Network

by A Link To The Matt on Tue Apr 21, 2025 2:15 pm

DGMacphee wrote:Where was your moral outrage over Let's Go to Prison?



I have moral outrage over the fact that Let's go to Prison was ever made.
Bill wrote:I wanted to lock the thread, you agreed with me and had nothing further to add. Well now I want to drill you with a corn cob in the Burro Jim Motel out by I-75. What say you?

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Re: Network

by B on Tue Apr 21, 2025 3:33 pm

Just!n wrote:Maybe this is due to lack of personal experience


like anyone would want to R you
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Re: Network

by Randy on Tue Apr 21, 2025 3:50 pm

rapethread 2: this time it's (rape) personal

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Re: Network

by White Panther on Tue Apr 21, 2025 4:02 pm

Never seen or heard of Let's Go To Prison. I'm very confident that my beliefs are justifiably consistent. If you wish to try to challenge me on that, have at it, friend!

I think it's pretty clear that Ryan only has issues with depictions of rape crimes perpetrated against women by men

This is a pretty far leap from what I said, which is that they are not the same thing (meaning, they don't have the same effect on our fucked up society where 1 in 6 women is sexually assaulted in her lifetime compared to 1 in 33 men.)

As I've said repeatedly, my issue is the reaction to those scenes by the people on this forum, and the horrific statements that have been made about rape (you know, that comment that Emily made about you folks being unwilling to critically evaluate things you enjoy, right before the thread got locked! LOL.)
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Re: Network

by A Link To The Matt on Tue Apr 21, 2025 4:04 pm

Ryan, where do you stand on rape being used in a film to generate outrage, i.e. Last House on the Left?
Bill wrote:I wanted to lock the thread, you agreed with me and had nothing further to add. Well now I want to drill you with a corn cob in the Burro Jim Motel out by I-75. What say you?

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Re: Network

by MattW on Tue Apr 21, 2025 4:33 pm

In summation, the acceptable times to show screen rape.

1. To establish screen heat (it's the movie equivalent of "Your local sports team sucks!"
2. If the person has it coming to them.
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Re: Network

by Greg on Tue Apr 21, 2025 4:33 pm

A Link To The Matt wrote:Ryan, where do you stand on rape being used in a film to generate outrage, i.e. Last House on the Left?

He'd probably point a finger at you and call you horrible and say humanity is doomed.

White Panther wrote:As I've said repeatedly, my issue is the reaction to those scenes by the people on this forum, and the horrific statements that have been made about rape (you know, that comment that Emily made about you folks being unwilling to critically evaluate things you enjoy, right before the thread got locked! LOL.)

But I think we HAVE been critically evaluating this, it's just some people are coming to different conclusions then "oh god, the horror!"

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Re: Network

by David on Tue Apr 21, 2025 4:54 pm

White Panther wrote:As I've said repeatedly, my issue is the reaction to those scenes by the people on this forum, and the horrific statements that have been made about rape (you know, that comment that Emily made about you folks being unwilling to critically evaluate things you enjoy, right before the thread got locked! LOL.)

The implication that the thread was locked immediately after a call to evaluate the issue meaning we don't want to evaluate it is off base.

We all know that particular thread wasn't going to go anywhere positive. Argument threads don't end that way around here once they reach a certain point which I think it did. They either get locked or the people arguing stop posting for a while (or forever) while the rest of use calm down with a two page word game.
B wrote:I'm just getting old, and starting to wish people would be more open and honest about things they liked and expressive about their joy, rather than hyperbolic and thorough about their disappointments.

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Re: Network

by Hanstock on Tue Apr 21, 2025 4:57 pm

oh man did i miss a word game :(
I'm not going to try to tell you that I'm different from all the rest.
I’ve been subject to the same de-structure of desire and I’ve felt the same effects.
I’m a hetero-sexist tragedy. And potential rapists all are we.

And I refuse to be a “man”.

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Re: Network

by Just!n on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:00 pm

when a fruit-loving primate asks you to dinner and a movie and you say yes, you are accepting an invitation to date grape.
Once you know you won't impress you'll find that being nice is nice for its own sake.

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Re: Network

by Just!n on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:02 pm

when you are angry at the man who perpetrated the murder of Dumbeldore, you hate Snape.
Once you know you won't impress you'll find that being nice is nice for its own sake.

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Re: Network

by B on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:03 pm

The actor Mr. Fiennes is always offending the women he meets when he asks them if they'd like to Date Ralph
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Re: Network

by Just!n on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:05 pm

1 night in chyna starring x-pac and chyna is the definition of the world's most disgusting 'bate tape
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Re: Network

by Andy on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:09 pm

when you cannot continue crime fighting because the cleaner wont return part of your costume you can blame it on a late cape
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Re: Network

by Magnus J. Perriculum on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:12 pm

When you vote on http://WWW.HOWSMYNECK.COM, the goal is to rate nape.
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Re: Network

by Andy on Tue Apr 21, 2025 5:12 pm

when you share a pastry with your best bud it's a mate crepe.
Mike wrote:Tylenol is an abomination of our Lord you fucking sinner.

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This whole entire album is dreadful. It made me lock myself in the closet and almost puke. If I ever hear any of these songs ever again I will drive a stake through the singer's heart and dance the "Tango" on his skull.
 
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